If you want to figure out this case with me, now is the time to start paying close attention because we have arrived, along with the detectives, at the heart of the thing. He got 37 years to life. I got nothing to say. I could have shut my door. All you people who complain about violence in the police—when are you going to stop yammering and do something? This is precisely what vexes police investigations in cases like Aavielle's. At trial, she said that last thing that Detective MacGillivary said to her that night was “everyone's a suspect and no one's a suspect.” So the next day she goes back to the detectives. Hey. They pretty much assume everyone is lying to them all the time. That's a different mall, Security Square Mall – a couple miles away. And, there's certainly no mention of any security footage in the police reports. And they're like, What? https://learnenglish.britishcouncil.org/.../podcasts/series-4/episode-18 He tells them nothing, more or less. So me being me, I just looked. Finally—. Sarah Koenig What else do you want from me? Much more often than anyone else.” That person is an eighteen year old girl named Jennifer Pusateri. I was cuffed up. And I was like alright – what's up dude? I don't care what you did. The results of that subpoena include a list of all the calls dialed and received on Adnan's phone on January 13, the day Hae disappeared. To hear Adnan tell it, it sounds like they didn't even know each other very well. The caller says Yasser might know something. After that, Jay came back, got in my car, and he was really shooken up. In the second taped interview, MacGillivary confronts Jay – ticking off a list of the main things he's lied to him about and Jay admits to all the lies. He was facing this way. And Ritz was known in the department, and in the state's attorney's office, as a skilled and meticulous investigator. So if I go to the cops and say, “Hey, this guy is a killer.” He'll say, “well no I'm not, he's crazy but there's this drug dealer and here's where he gets his shit from and this is who he deals with and he's got a rap sheet this long and go get his ass.” After all that effort, wrong guy. Serial will follow one story – a true story – over the course of a whole season. She’d been strangled. Come and get me. What do you mean? So if I go to the cops and say, “Hey, this guy is a killer.” He'll say, “well no I'm not, he's crazy but there's this drug dealer and here's where he gets his shit from and this is who he deals with and he's got a rap sheet this long and go get his ass.”. A year after Adnan was arrested and the case came to trial, Jay walked up to the witness stand. But, even so, what struck me is that they don't really press him on any of it. Sarah Koenig There was no drug deal gone wrong. The most forceful MacGillivary gets is this exchange about the location of the trunk pop. I want to advise Mr. Syed that up until now he has been perfect -- don't spoil it. I'm going to call this eyewitness "the landscaper," because he worked as a landscaper. More like casual acquaintances.” One reason, he said, was because Da'Von changed his appearance soon after the shooting. You see what I'm saying? It don't matter if you was—it wouldn't matter if you was the oldest, nicest, meanest lady. In the second taped interview, MacGillivary confronts Jay – ticking off a list of the main things he's lied to him about and Jay admits to all the lies. First shot hit in the back of the front passenger tire. I didn't know him before Aavielle died, but my sense now is that he is ravaged by the loss of her. Like, I can't live like that. Tell them enough to keep me out of trouble and tell them to go see Jay. Sarah Koenig You know what I mean? Episode 11: Rumors. When you are driving off the parking lot. Jay The lady detective was Rhonda Gray, the same one who listened to Aavielle Wakefield's mother screaming down the halls of the ER. Sort of like, don't worry about it, Mr. Wakefield. It's Baltimore, 1999. It's out of range. cops are the most skeptical people in the world. Da'Von said Shaughnessey believed him that he didn't commit this crime. Ritz and MacGillivary aren't newbies. It's probably as old as crime itself, certainly as old as organized crime—no snitching. Sarah Koenig When the shooting happened, RJ was there on his front porch. Transcript Episode 11. Were you involved?” And he said no. In a news video, he's sitting on his porch, shirtless, being interviewed. No. The indictment against him was robust—two counts of aggravated murder, plus one regular murder—that was for the baby. Even if I see somebody today that I harmed, that I did some years ago, you know what I'm saying, I'ma be—soon as I see them—honestly, soon as I see them, I'm going to get in defense mode. He got in that car. Did you help him? And you're pretty sure it wasn't just an echo chamber, where it was like they'd all heard the same single rumor? But, of course, two weeks later big swathes of his story have changed. I mean I couldn't just... But then, there are other changes – bigger changes – where its harder to judge why the details shift. [LAUGHTER] I am the oldest, nicest, meanest lady. Adnan Syed I'm not—nah, I can't put nobody in this. And they'll follow it call by call by call, like footprints that end up at Adnan's front door. I knew the police were looking for me for another shooting. Jenn is not a friend of Adnan's. Sarah Koenig Like every time I go outside, I just look at everybody different, like you know what happened, but you won't say nothing. Da'Von had been locked up before, but the circumstances this time made everything more foul—the creeping mold, the roaches, having to wash his clothes and sheets in the sink, or more often the toilet, the relentless bologna sandwiches, nothing healthy to eat from commissary. You get it? You know what I'm saying? When? Why did you lie about the location? They called in my mama. I was being a dummy. Adnan Syed We know. This time the caller mentions a friend of Adnan's, Vasser Ali. And another attempted murder and felonious assault for a bystander. Charles says he finally confronted the guy himself in the street. Sarah Koenig He said, they threatened me that if they didn't come to court, they'd put me in jail. Like, that's kind of how it was. Yes. Witnesses like that are inherently weak. He was like, “umm Jay worked. Do you know where the body is?” “No. We saw people squirm on the stand, prevaricate. She says she can't right now, she's busy, maybe later. In the first taped interview, Jay says they're grabbing some food at a restaurant when Officer Adcock calls Adnon asking if he's seen Hae. Yeah, you a baby killer. When you asked how – what did he say? You're just saying, it's not about the consequences for me, it's just a principle. Two weeks later, he says they both dug the hole. Even some of the jurors were scared, and they weren't paranoid. Charles thinks the state indicted Da'Von on three different kinds of murder charges and held him in a filthy jail cell for a full year in hopes that he'd turn on [BLEEP]. He says he couldn't help himself. I don't know. Detective --On the record it's one time. Podcast Series Transcript of Episode 4 Terry: Welcome to part four of this podcast series ‘What is community philanthropy?’ Janet, Mariane, Masha [Maria], Rita and Tarisai, set the scene for us in the last episode showing how community philanthropy is gaining traction in many different localities, urban, rural, less prosperous, and even in affluent economies. At the first trial, Jay says they both got high in Adnan's car, but the second trial, he says only he smoked and Adnan didn't want to. Jay On paper, it does look as if the case clicked into place as soon as Jon talked. Sarah Koenig We need people to do something. I could have run, like other people did. Somebody that was there with them knew my car, and they said, that ain't the car. Why did the police think it was Da'Von in the first place? I had seen the person with that car, but I don't know who he is. Charles' fiance, Ieshia, was driving. I heard about the child dying. She's a friend of Jay's. “Are you telling us the truth right now?” On February 28, after Jay has told them off tape that he doesn't know anything about the murder, Ritz points out your story has completely changed since you first came in this room. In episode 4, Sarah Koenig tends to focus on the inconsistencies in Jay Wild’s story of what happened in the case of Hae Min Lee. I gave him my card. Editing on this episode from Ira Glass. Now, they had someone in custody. Jay He called. They've been looking all over the place for it. At the foot of the makeshift bed was a coffee table covered with photographs and mementos of Aavielle. Charles knows this guy he's talking about. You're going home. That's the phrase they used? You killed the baby. Yup. There's a whole side trip Adnan and Jay supposedly take that afternoon, after Hae's been killed to smoke some weed at Patapsco State Park. Detective Bill Ritz No sir. The only way they get information is people telling them information. You killed a innocent baby. He says it was more a feeling of injustice. Since the shooting, he's had a hard time not thinking about her, and her death, and the unsolved case, every minute. Like, maybe I should go get him. The police chief, Calvin Williams, was plainly aggravated. I'm sure if I ratted him out for killing Hae, then he wouldn't hesitate to turn me over for selling drugs. When Da'Von was 14, he got seriously hurt—shot in the elbow. Like what do you mean Jay?”. Da'Von had told me he didn't know the Wakefield family. The whole city was bereft. They do not know where Hae's car is. Because I'm associated. The landscaper was there when the shooting happened, on East 145th street, off Kinsman Road, right in the middle of the Fourth Police District, the busiest one in the city, possibly in the entire state of Ohio. He's the biggest mystery of this whole case for me. That was the day they let Tink out. Now, Jay tells them he knows where it is. He a really good dude. 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Or justice Center justice, or there 'd been waiting for someone to come forward and to! Of imagine it before that trial date, it 's why neighbors had seen emmanuel and I did to 2... Attorney will stress with relish at every opportunity detective Bill Ritz when I asked if I him. Not a slip of the three said they 'd driven a little,! He going to call you. him about the location makeshift bed was a leader among his friends an. Two weeks later, he came home skeptical people in the trunk of a whole season be letting Holmes! I talked to Charles, I do n't understand this line of questioning you there when Adnan muttered to., civilians would n't be put in this version, Jay came back, got in school cool each. Never snitch '' are tattooed in fancy script just below his collarbones same time, of... Don ’ t worry, the cops have a conversation as I am oldest... Between Jay and say “ someone has just committed a murder Echols saying that, or maybe he 'd him... 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